This is the start of many “questions” I’ve had since my personal religious tradition meltdown. Explained in detail here.
I’ve learned through personal revelation that the Father is passionate about a relationship with me more than anything. Even more than fixing me and making me more “useful” to him. Just be with Him. Talk with Him. Like NORMAL stuff! Which bring me to my first question…
Why do we have to close our eyes when we talk to the Father?
My analysis…
Now the obvious answer to me would be to shut out distraction and have a little more focus which is fine if that’s why we do it. But, I found myself getting all upset at my boys when we’re praying at the table and they don’t have their heads bowed and eyes closed. I was thinking a few weeks ago as one of my sons was bowing his head and yet also peeking at his yummy food while we were saying thanks for the meal. I got kinda upset and I think the Father actually was smiling at the whole thing. He told me something like “Josh, I don’t care. He’s hungry… I think it’s funny.” And I smiled… The more I get to know the Father the more I realize I think He wants me to be more real with him rather than try to impress Him with burdensome, unbiblical restrictions.
One of my favorite scriptures:
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
Josh told me to come here and post…so I am.
Josh controls me like a puppet master. Dance, monkey-boy, dance! Sorry…where was I…
I think there is a season for everything and I think there’s good fruit in training your children what reverence is…then there will also come a time where you can teach them that its OK to pray with your eyes wide open, while eating a burger, while driving to the grocery store, while having sex, while laying on the couch, while you are really ticked off at someone…its OK pretty much in every way…but I dont think a young child can *generally* understand all of that stuff.
I think we all need balance as well. We need to learn that its OK to say “Whats up God, this dinner rocks and so do you…” but if our prayer time always follows that pattern…ALWAYS…we may want to take a look at our relationship with God…he’s not just “a dude”, he’s >>THE<< I AM and thats no small thing.
As with most things its about our heart and where it is. If we are in a good relationship with him, there may be times when we get really intense and pray…and the guy right next to us is talking to God in a very casual way…or vice versa…and its all OK.
Every time I talk to my wife, with whom I'm in a deep relationship, its not the same way…sometimes its "whats up hottie" and sometimes its "Melissa, we need to talk now."…and sometimes its "Oh sweet butter beans, what did you do?!?"
I think God likes that fluid relationship to.
There. Back to dancing for the puppet master.
-Chris
I wanted u to come here and post because I figured you’d say pretty much the same thing as me but in a deeper and more clearer way… I think you expressed how I feel about the matter as good or better than me! I especially agree with
“he’s not just “a dude”, he’s >>THE<< I AM and thats no small thing."
I agree with that whole heartedly!
Hey Bob,
When are you going to call me “sweet butter beans”?
Whats wrong with “Sweet Honey Buns”? You know I like hot buns better than beans.
What about “Sweet Honey Buns” that just ate a bunch of “Sweet Butter Beans”?
Great question! As I read your analysis I had to smile as I pictured your son “bowing his head and yet also peeking at his yummy food while we were saying thanks for the meal”. I couldn’t help but think if the goal is to express thanks for our food what could be more expressive than having to take a peek at the yummy food while you are saying thanks for it.
My analysis:
You don’t.
I think it probably started in schools and kids’ church services as a way to help kids keep from distracting each other and to help teach them to focus (as you mentioned). I think it probably started with good intention and then many of those kids became adults and suddenly it was the only acceptable way to pray. When we say the blessing at our house we usually sing a song:
Lord, We thank you
Lord, We thank you
For our food
For our food
and our many blessings
and our many blessings
amen
Our kids eyes are open and we are looking around the table smiling at each other. Every once in a while we have something in particular to be thankful for or a “special occasion” (or I just feel like changing things up a bit) so I will say a more traditional prayer where I speak and the kids sit and listen. I have noticed…not sure why, that me and my wife and kids usually bow our heads and close our eyes for those prayers. The only thing I can think of that explains that behavior is either by default we all feel like it is respectful or, most likely, we just learned to act that way from someone.
While I was writing this post my 12 year old daughter was looking over my shoulder and made a comment. We have just recently started dropping our kids off at a local Awanas club at the baptist church. She was laughing at my response to the question because she said that every time at Awanas when the kids pray the lady leading the prayer waits about 5 minutes to make sure every kids’ eyes are closed before she starts praying. That’s where we learn it. Before we judge though, we have to imagine ourselves leading prayer for 30 young children and hoping we can prevent chaos long enough to pray.
Last thought….maybe the “closing the eyes” started because of Luke 18:9-14 – http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2018:9-14&version=NIV
Maybe early Christians wanted to make sure they didn’t pray like the Pharisees so they bowed their heads and closed their eyes like the humble example given by Jesus. It could be just one more instance of people taking a verse out of context and to an extreme. Jesus also taught us to call God “Father”. How ironic that I find myself telling my own children, “Look at me when your talking to me”.
He didn’t look up but that doesn’t mean he looked down and had his eyes closed… : ) Of course when I think about beating my chest I am probably looking down and making some kinda sad face with my eyes squinting at the very least!
Your “Before we judge though” comment is right on That is something that my little Pharisee butt has struggled with for a long time. (Getting better though!)
Every once in a while we all say something that we are thankful for that day followed by a prayer… it’s good times. Amazing to hear the things that a 3 year old will say! I love it! I have a feeling so does the Father.
Excellent responses.
For a long time I didn’t verbally pray at all. It just seemed so routing; plus if God knows everything, what’s the point right? Time passed…Over time, I realized my heart was continually singing, bubbling with joy, and deeply connected with God. I remember one day just looking out over this beautiful field, being filled with God’s creative glory. I wanted to speak, but had one of those God moments and realized my heart was doing just fine without my words… was I praying? When I found out Caleb (a neighbor kid) was going to loose his front teeth and I went into my bedroom and cried for him….was I praying? When Josh Howell tells me he’s getting ready to go sell pictures via a text and without words my heart hopes for his prosperity and throughout the day I realize that hope for him has not faded and I can’t wait to hear how it went later…am I praying? What if I’m in church and I’m overwhelmed with the presence of God that’s surrounding me completly and all I can do is just sit there…am I praying? If I read I Corinthians 13 sixteen times a day for a week because I want it embedded in my heart; I want it instilled in my character…am I praying?
What is prayer anyway?
Now that I’ve opened a can of worms… in response to your question Josh. Sometimes with people you just need order (corporately speaking). The issue can go beyond reverence and format. Paul had to tell the Corinthians in some ways a step-by-step concerning church all for the issue of order. Pariculary so “the body” could be edified. If we love one another and respect our differences we will do that. To be specific, if your having a conversation with someone and someone else laughs loud enough or makes any distraction, it’s the same thing as interupting and it’s rude. It’s not necessarily whether handling the prayer was done accurately, it’s the disrespect towards others involved in the corporate prayer. And of course I think the counter of that is “If you close your eyes, you can’t be distracted by others.”
Personally, I am so easily distracted. I’d love to be able to close my eyes and focus during prayer. Unfortunately, closing my eyes has an alternate affect and I start to daydream or “mind wander”. I usually have to afix my eyes on something off in the distance. An unseen benefit of this is that I’ve been told from others that I can appear very reverent or holy by doing so.
I actually got “thrown off” once during a prayer. When I was in Germany, this administrator took us to a restaurant and before the meal he prayed. He stood up in the middle of the restaurant, spread out his hands and began to sing to where the whole room could hear…”Vater wir danken dir, Vater wir danken dir, Vater ins Himmel wir danken dir!” Of course all the other Germans at the table got up and sang with him. It was an excellent heart expanding experience…once I recovered from the shock.
I had to go to Babelfish and look up the meaning…the best I can tell it means “Father we thank You, Father we thank You, Father in heaven we thank You”…is that right Drew? Sounds awesome. Not sure that would work in America but if anyone could pull it off, it would be you Drew.
That is the exact tranlation, I probably didn’t write the German correctly….did the best I could. The thing I love about singing a prayer is that music seems to have an ability to “attach your soul” to it. I was glad to hear you sing at your dinner table.
and interestingly I have trouble with singing the same prayer again and again. Not for you Bob but for me. I have had bad experiences in the past with some of my very non religious family members singing their prayer because they wanted their kids to be “churched” but felt uncomfortable talking to God. So we would sing a song at dinner time while all the family watches the kids and thinks about how cute they are rather than really singing thanks. So whatever you do… sing, talk, scream, think, dance naked (might wanna be careful with that one) do it from the heart and be careful to never let your heart get repetitious or as some might say “religious” I think we’ll sing a song at dinner time tonight just to change it up!!! Yes break my box! Ya know Drew a few times we have been all just bowing our heads and praying to ourselves over dinner. I tell the boys pray, then when your done you can start eating no matter what anyone else is doing. That’s fun too!
Josh,
I completely understand and agree. Thats the reason I “just feel like changing things up a bit”. I think some element of repetition in praying before a meal is unavoidable though…there are only so many ways you can do it. Because of that, its also probably unavoidable that sometimes your heart and mind won’t be in it. The same thing happens when I put my kids to bed. My oldest daughter often asks me to pray with her before bedtime…I have since she was born. Sometimes I am “in the moment” and my prayer is earnest and sincere. Sometimes, if I am honest, it is a quick prayer and you would think I was praying to the tooth fairy, not the creator and ruler of the universe (or >>THE<< I AM). Sometimes I am tired, distracted, or just not fully taking in reality. I'm sure God prefers my heartfelt prayers but I imagine, since he understands human behavior so well, he is not surprised when my prayers sound robotic. Either way, my daughter values the prayer time and her memory of praying with me will probably be a positive one. I'm sure she has noticed the difference herself. For example, last night's prayer went something like this "God Bless Mannah, God Bless Daddy". It was abbreviated and obsequious but I woke up today and it had been answered.
What a great reply… : )
I’m learning so much from you guys… I need to change question of the week to question of the day! Although I would run out of questions pretty fast.
I’ve always been more of an “eyes wide open” prayer. The times I do close my eyes are basically in a church, during prayer before a meal if it’s at someone else’s table, and also in times when I feel so blessed, or so heavy of heart I need to close my eyes. I’m not quite sure if that makes sense, but it does to me. I enjoy seeing all the wonderful things that God has made, and that’s probably why I pray like I do.