I’ve heard a lot of people in the church say “Wow that person really knows how to pray”
It didn’t strike me as odd until recently. Now I’m thinking “What in the world does that mean?”. MOST, of the time (knowingly or not) people really mean… Wow that person says the right thing, talks with an authorative voice, or yells a lot and it makes my emotions happy.
When did prayer become about moving people and not moving God? Praying things to minister to people around us rather than communicating with our Father. “Lord SHOW US that You blah blah blah” “Let us see that blah blah blah” preachy prayers and such… Why do we do that?
God’s prabably thinking… huh?
What’s the point? I’m thinking maybe we should concentrate on actually communicating with God rather than always trying to “move” or “bless” those around us. And maybe someone that “knows how to pray” is really just someone that knows how to open thier mouth and talk… or even think… or even just be…. OK maybe slightly deeper than that but not much!
Maybe some people can’t express themselves well and instead of saying, “Hey, good prayer.” really mean things like, “Wow, we were one in the Spirit just then.” Jesus did teach “US” to pray and even the Lord’s prayer starts with, “OUR Father”. Even when Jesus prayed by himself (ever wonder how we got in the Bible a prayer that Jesus somehow prayed by himself?) He asked that WE would be ONE as HE and the FATHER are ONE. I do however think there is a lot of Bull-Malarky when people pray and I also think that most people got to church for emotional fixes like Crack Addicts, but there can be some genuine corporate intimacy created by prayer. And if we’re called to worship in “Spirit and Truth”, I wonder if and how that applys to prayer? – I’m answering this question from a corporate/group perspective and left my views on individual prayer out of it.
Ad HOC: You know, I don’t really even go to church due to the naseous feeling I get from all the “observations” I find. I probably should have left this question to the pros. Most of the time I don’t even listen to prayers made any more at church because of the repulsed feeling I get. I also usually do Soduko puzzles during the sermon. Pretty much I go to church so I can talk to people I like before and after the actual church service.
Josh – great ? on prayer.
Your post reminded me of a conversation I had with a friend last week. She commented that she just couldn’t wait until her faith walk was like mine. I said “Please, don’t spend your time and put your hopes on following my faith walk – follow Jesus Christ!” She replied that she felt it was okay to want to have a strong and steadfast faith walk like the one she claims I portray. I again stressed that she must follow the Lord. She should seek Him with all of her heart, soul, mind and strength, and measure her walk with His. I explained that there is no end on this earth to our need for becoming more like Jesus Christ, and that the moment we think we are all grown up, then we best fear the evil of “pride” because it is more than likely lurking close by, and has begun to deceive us in to thinking that we have reached “perfection”.
This goes along with your question on prayer as truly the only judge of who “really know how to pray” is the one who answers our prayers. I have found the most effective prayer and most prompted by the Holy Spirit is “Lord, Thy Will Be Done!!!”
Blessings!!!
Kathleen
Your question really hits a chord with me. I have heard “Wow, that person really knows how to pray!” often in my life, and it never ceases to grate on my spirit. There has always seemed to be something “not quite right” about that statement, and I would like to discuss the possible reasons why it bothers me so much.
As a child I would hear such exclamations and think they were odd, but not really know why they didn’t sit right with me. As I grew older, and as my intellectual and spiritual-self matured, it became very clear to me what was off about these kind of accolades for the “Super-Prayer Hero”. One only has to look as far as the parable of the pharisee and the tax collector that Jesus used to shed some insight on the matter:
The Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector
9To some who were confident of their own righteousness and looked down on everybody else, Jesus told this parable: 10“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood up and prayed abouta himself: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other men—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’
13“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’
14“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Now granted, your question of the week is more about the person who says “Wow, that person really knows how to pray!” than about the person who is doing the praying. But I would argue that the person who is making the comment is focusing on the wrong thing. Why does it even matter to that person how “awesome” a prayer that person says? It is my guess that had the people who are making these kinds of comments lived in the days of Jesus, they would have made a similar comment about the pharisee Jesus is referring to.
According to the passage, it doesn’t matter how lofty, powerful, or animated a prayer is . . . nor does it matter how many scriptures a person cites in their prayers. Need I list off some of the religious charlatans of old and of today that deceived thousands because of their extraordinary “prayers” and spirituality? One person who comes to mind is Todd Bentley of a recent revival in Florida. I heard numerous comments about Todd that were the equivalent of “Wow, that person really knows how to pray.” All the while, when I observed YouTube excerpts of Todd I was deeply disturbed and had a sense that his ministry was way more about pomp and circumstance than about actually ministering to people’s hearts. I do, however, have to admit that God is his judge and I do not know what the actual condition of his heart is. . . I am merely sharing observations based upon the fruit (or lack of) that became evident near the end of his time at the revival.
Another thing that bothers me about the statement “Wow, that person really knows how to pray!” is the implied assumption that the person making the statement is worthy of judging the speaker’s praying ability and heart. In light of our fallen, rotten state, the statement seems absurd! Who really cares if we as individual humans think someone can “really pray”? Only God himself can judge the quality of someone’s prayers . . . and I have a strong suspicion that what the average individual sees an “awesome prayer” is mere filth to our Lord.
Based on my understanding of scripture, God is much more concerned with humble hearts than elaborate masquerades and oratorical showmanship.
Which brings me to how this question personally affects my everyday life. I will never forget something that a Sunday School teacher told me when I was about four years old. She said that it didn’t matter if I said the words out loud, I could talk to God using my heart and mind, and He would hear me just as loud as if I uttered the words with my mouth. That has always stuck with me, and as I have gotten older, I actually avoid praying out loud in front of others. I want all of my communication with God to be genuine . . . not altered because I am in the presence of others. It is not all that different than when I am talking to my Sweetie on the phone; when I am on a secure line I talk one way, but if I am in a room full of people the conversation is completely different, and I daresay, lacking authenticity. Similarly, when I talk to God I want a secure line. Just Him and me, no one listening or judging if I “really know how to pray”or not. I may not ever win any “Super-Prayer Hero” awards, but I am okay with that. Really!
that was a yummy read Bethany. Thanks!
We parents must be careful to help our children understand this as well. I have found that in the past my children have said that they “didn’t know what to say.” I tell them that they talk to their mom and dad every day with PLENTY to say. God is their father in Heaven. They need to talk to Him just the same. Difference is He is always listening.
Also being a busy mom I can fall prey to the “not enough time to pray” lie. It does not have to be a big production with loads of quiet time. I can pray while loading the dishes, taking out the trash, sweeping the floors, etc. Maybe this is what is meant by pray without ceasing?
“Wow, you guys really know how to answer posts. Great Responses.”
Romans 8:26 (New International Version)
In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.
There simply isn’t a wrong way to pray or a way that is better than another. As Paul says we don’t really know what we should be praying for anyway. The Holy Spirit takes our words (verbal or not) and intercedes on our behalf.
I love the story of the little boy who was kneeling beside his bed praying. His mom stopped to listen and heard the boy saying, “A B C D E F G . . . .” he recited the entire alphabet and then said Amen. His mom came in to tuck him in and asked about the prayer. The Little boy said, Mom, I didn’t know how to say what I wanted so I just gave God the letters and asked him to put them together.
Some time we probably just need to stop and say the alphabet . . . then God may say, he really knows how to pray. After all no matter how authoritative, tear filled, loud, or flowery our prayers are the Holy Spirit is still translating.
On another note, I have often had prayers that were just groans or sobs or even just a look upward. I knew God heard and the Holy Spirit interceded. That, for me, was really praying.
I do think there are people who are gifted with the ability to intercede or pray for others. I have had the privilege of being the beneficiary of some of these gifted people’s prayers. God has blessed them with a heart that is pure in a desire to seek blessings for others. There words can be a balm to those around them. That is a beautiful thing to hear.
Kyle,
I have experienced the “balm” that you mention in your last paragraph. I was at a desperate place with God during my freshman year in college and needed to hear from Him. A stranger on campus (I knew his name but not much else) saw the expression on my face and he just walked up, put his arm around me, and began praying. His words were like medicine to my soul and I felt like God was speaking right through him.
I will never forget the moment…he was barely whispering the words but I could feel peace overcome me and when he was done praying I felt like I had the answer I was looking for and the peace that “passes understanding” that I desperately desired. I didn’t feel like he was trying to impress me with his praying and I would have never thought to say “Wow, he knows how to pray”. There were people all around us at the time but he didn’t make a scene out of it. I felt like it was deep compassion (and the prompting of God’s spirit) that gave him the courage to approach me without invitation.
I wanted to share that story because as I read Josh’s post my mind went straight to all of the people I have known that like to show off with their public praying and holiness…but, your post reminded me, there are public prayers or “beautiful” prayers that are pure in motive in spite of their eloquence. BoB
PS – I think this idea is similar to Drew’s comment:
“Hey, good prayer.” really means, “Wow, we were one in the Spirit just then.”
Thanks for sharing. Great story. I remember a pastor, who I really respected talking to on the phone one January. I had just finished the worst year of my life. I had lost two careers, seemed as though I was losing my marriage and I was at the bottom. He asked if he could pray for me. I said sure. He then proceeded to ask God to flush the toilet on all the crap that had been floating in my bowl. First, I never expected the toilet analogy in a prayer from this man. Second, it was the perfect prayer for me at that moment. It honestly dealt with what it seemed I had been dealing with. I found a lot of peace in that prayerful flush.
Prayers don’t always have to be flowery or eloquent to be effective!